Sunday, January 16, 2011

Ramblings and Rules Question

Last Black Templar piece I painted, not even half done.. no worries, the Pack doesn't mind the smell of incense :-)

So new BT update is out, and it has made some interesting fixes, thou not sure they're enough to draw me back.  I was really drawn to the fluff of the Black Templar's, and started cranking out an army.  Diving head first without really researching. I was researching a bit, checking various lists for good n' bad units, but never actually researched the Army.  Let me tell you, trying learn this game (5th Edition), with a older codex is TOUGH!  There were a numerous amount of discrepancies, issues, etc.  Too confusing.

Won't give up on them, but promised myself I wasn't investing in BT's until they get a new codex, and a two page update on the internet isn't going to cut it.

No matter, I can use the Razorback, Land Raider, and two Speeders I painted for my Space Wolves to zip around in.

EDIT, begin:
Rules Question
click for larger

comment response, "Yea, I was going to post that question with the Batrep, just didn't have the Batrep done."

2(Hive Tyrant/Gaunts) units win an assault against 1(Grey Hunters) sm unit.

The sole remaining Grey Hunter fails leadership, falls back 5 inches.

We rolled for sweeping advance, starting with the Gaunts (they catch him)... does the Hive Tyrant roll for sweeping advance?  If so,  Does the Hive Tyrant have too? 

Obviously Space Marines cannot be destroyed by a sweeping advance, if caught they "continue to fight normally", which isn't accurate as the next sentence states that they are subject to the "no retreat" rule, hence the lone guy makes #saves, based on the wound difference.  Is this correct?

If the HT has to Sweep Advance,  is it ordered?  So in our example.  The gaunts catch the SM survivor (sweeping advance), do you immediately resolve the 'no retreat' saves, then sweep the HT or roll all sweeping advances?

In our case it didn't affect the game, as the lone survivor didn't make his saves and was destroyed, however the question arose as basically Joe didn't want to leave his Hive Tyrant out of close combat to get shot (understandably).  We couldn't find anything defining in the rulebook, but it just didn't make sense (to me) that you would lose control of all your units.  Example, three units assault one, win, and then all of them make a sweeping advance at once, regardless of the possible outcome of sweeping advance 1, 2 or 3 (if it's ordered).

EDIT, end.

Game Table
Played my 14th game this weekend.  Good game Space Wolves vs. Tyranids.  Had some fun, laughs, and hammered out more rules.  Collectively we made very few mistakes.  Will have a couple of questions soon thou.

Didn't get alot of pictures, but did get some of the over engineered game table, that is not finished.  So in closing pictures of the "unfinished" over engineered game table of uberness, enjoi

Notice the green felt and red felt on opposite sides for placing figs, and the dice rolling boxes

Shot of left side
Shot of right side.


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. *deleted and reposted freaking typos!


    Yeah I am going to start countersinking the nails and use black caulking over them. Shouldn't take too long. Other than that gotta wood putty the gaps in the dice rails. And of course the last "big" part we gotta get better legs installed.
    Oh and I noticed some thin spots on the sand but again that's something that will take no time.

    Ok so onto the RULES question I have for Lue and the others that visit here:

    Set up: A Hive Tyrant and a unit of Gaunts close assualt one unit of Space Wolf tacticals. After all is rolled only one fig of the SW unit is left. He fails his leadership and falls back. Now Rob and I know that the lone SW can't be caught in a sweeping advance. *Rob you may have to add to this for I am lacking on full knowledge of that, no retreat and all.

    Question: So the lone SW not able to be caught in sweeping advance, do both the HT and Gaunts get to "pile in" and maintain close assualt with that lone survivor? Do they have to move to chase him?

    For better clarity, let say the lone survivor was an Ork boy. Therefore can be caught in sweeping advance. Do BOTH the participating units (the HT and Gaunts) who were involved with that Ork unit get to make a sweeping advance towards that last surving Ork?

    Second thought that just popped into my mind:
    Does a unit that wins close assualt and has enemies retreating, have to make a sweeping advance or can it break off the attack?

    Again Rob you might be able to word this better.

  3. heyoh, btw you have author privy's! You have any questions, pics, ramblings, etc. Post em on the front page :-)

    btw, edited the post with the comment response and rules question ;-)

  4. *cracks his knuckles* Ok working on page 40 and 41. Some on 42 also with no retreat.

    In the case of the Marine, he lost combat, fails the LD check. Both the Gaunts and HT make their tests vs the Marine to see if they catch him. If he is caught he has to make the "no retreat armor saves".

    1) If he dies, each unit rolls a d6 to consolidate.

    2) If the Marine lives, then you pile in. You could in theory lock the marine up with the Gaunts and the HT may not be able to make base contact, he would still move towards the Marine best he can to try to get in. Then the assult comes to an end for the HT and the Gaunts stay engaged to the Marine.

    The theory here is two way, if you WANT that Marine dead and the Gaunts may not have enough mass to remove the Marine then the HT moves in first, then the gaunts, now both are locked in combat, cannot be shot at but can be assulted. If the Gaunts lock up the Marine, the HT could be shot at as "he is no longer in combat". So, if it is the Nids next turn at the end of this combat, it may be a good thing to let the HT disengage and head to a new target that he would be better off fighting at instead of trying to kill a lone marine that Gaunts may take down. Still, if it is the Marine turn next, it may be wise to keep the HT locked in combat as he could not be a target in the shooting phase.

  5. Oh, also if there is an IC in the combat, when you do pile in you have to still follow the rules of assults and the IC has to try to make base to base first before any other model is moved. As the HT is not an IC he does not have to follow this rule.

  6. Sweetness! We got it right, cept for the d6 to consolidate.

    I thought consolidate was 3"? So is it three for winning(wiping) a unit, and d6 for sweeping advance win? or just d6 all the time?

  7. 3" and d6" was from the last edition. This time on p.40 it is d6 under consolidation. AFIK the only 3" is under Regrouping. So, like the rules state in the 40k FAQ, marines can fall back last turn, rally their next turn, consolidate 3" then advance 6" and eithe rapid fire or shoot assult weapons and charge.

  8. "Still, if it is the Marine turn next, it may be wise to keep the HT locked in combat as he could not be a target in the shooting phase." ~styx

    For our game we had, this was the issue for me after the fact. Being unclear as to how it all worked I would have wanted my HT to engage first (as to get into base contact) because it was the SW's turn next. And of course then having the marine's base not completely surrounded all I would need is one gaunt and both units Bingo! locked. Because within 12" easily, they had two unscathed units of tacticals. So I knew (well it became clear after the fact) that 24 or so bolter shots would for sure take out the HT as he already had a wound or two at that point. But I moved the gaunts first and therefore the HT got shot up. That's when it hit me. "Wait they both should get to try a sweeping advance, blah blah blah."

    Thanks for the input Styx!

  9. Right, so HT advance, then gaunts, as the gaunts would've locked in as well... as it was the lonely guy couldn't pass 5 saves... wth? haha..

    Funniest I thought was him not going off the board. Five and half inches away, he runs 5"... almost made it.. DOH!